Indigenous Insights: An Evaluation Podcast

S05E03: Embodied Evaluation and Cultural Storytelling in Museum Spaces

Overview 
In this episode, Gladys is joined by Rachel Chaffee, Abby Perez, and Sakira Hermawan to reflect on their collaborative evaluation of the Grounded by Our Roots exhibit in the Pacific Northwest Coast Hall at the American Museum of Natural History.The conversation traces how their partnership began and explores the possibilities that emerge when museums invite Indigenous approaches to evaluation and storytelling into cultural halls.
Together, they share how the team designed an evaluation process that moved beyond traditional survey-based methods to center embodied experience, creativity, and relationship. Through youth partnerships, focus groups, zine-making, storytelling, and time spent in the hall with Indigenous curatorial fellow James McGuire (Haida Nation), visitors were invited to reflect on their emotional, sensory, and relational experiences of the exhibit.
Grounded in the Four Rs framework: reflexivity, respect, reciprocity, and relationality, the team reflects on how this approach transformed their understanding of evaluation, museum responsibility, and the role of visitors in meaning-making. The conversation also highlights the importance of vulnerability, time, and trust in collaborative evaluation processes, and the ways creative and relational methods can open new pathways for learning within institutions. Ultimately, this episode invites listeners to imagine how evaluation can become a space for relationship-building, embodied reflection, and new storytelling within cultural institutions. 
 
Bios
Rachel Chaffee is an Assistant Director of Youth Research and Evaluation at the American Museum of Natural History. She completed a Ph.D. in Education with a focus on learning in out-of-school-time settings at the University of Rochester’s Warner School of Education.
Her areas of research include participatory methodologies with youth and the role of belonging and flourishing in youth academic and career pathways. 
 
Abby Perez is the Senior Manager of Youth and Workforce Development at the American Museum of Natural History. She designs museum programs centering community, science and communication. She is passionate about exploring museums as third spaces, community-driven research, and expanding pathways for youth to experience and exchange culture within New York City and beyond.  
Sakira Hermawan is a student in her last year at Barnard College, studying Anthropology and minoring in Ethnicity and Race. She is from Indonesia but is currently based in New York City. Her current areas of interest include alternative pedagogies and knowledge production, grassroots organizing, and space-making.
 
Resources
Grounded by Our Roots Exhibit. Pacific Northwest Coast Hall, American Museum of Natural History
American Museum of Natural History Museum Education Experience Program (MEEP)
Evaluation as Relationship: Embedding the Four R’s of Storytelling into Museum Spaces, Journal of Museum Education. 
Insights For Indigenous Evaluation Book (Open access and free online!) https://pressbooks.pub/indigenousinsightscollective/ 
For more visit: https://www.gladysrowe.com/podcast (Scroll to the bottom to subscribe to the newsletter!)
If you are loving this podcast please leave a five star review on your favourite streaming service.
If you would like to offer support please visit: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/InsightsPod

S05E02 Relational Evaluation, Story, and the Responsibility to Be Changed with Dr. Chesleigh Keene

In this episode, Gladys sits down with Dr. Chesleigh Keene, Diné (Navajo) scholar and Vice President of Research and Evaluation at a Native-owned organization, to explore her journey into Indigenous evaluation. What began in relationship with her students supporting them in grounding their research in community evolved into a career shaped by cultural values, storytelling, and relational accountability.
Dr. Keene reflects on teaching during the pandemic, navigating academia as an Indigenous scholar, and shifting from traditional academic models toward community-centered research and evaluation. Together, Gladys and Chesleigh explore what it means to let stories “touch us” as evaluators, to move beyond rigid templates, and to resist flattening the complexity of community experiences. They discuss the importance of slowing down, asking better questions, honoring seasonal rhythms, and tending to the emotional impact of the work on ourselves and our teams.
This episode is an invitation to practice evaluation as relationship, to be changed by the work, and to carry that responsibility with care.
Bio
Dr. Chesleigh Keene (Diné/Navajo) serves as vice president for KAI’s research and evaluation team, bringing over a decade of experience advancing health and wellness in American Indian and Alaska Native (AI/AN) communities and improving health and wellness outcomes through culture-centric research, teaching, and service. Guided by Indigenous values, Dr. Keene integrates cultural and ceremonial elements into her work, focusing on cancer prevention, mental health, and education initiatives for AI/AN populations. She has collaborated on multidisciplinary teams, promoted cultural sensitivity in research, and taught graduate courses with a focus on Indigenous perspectives. Dr. Keene’s career spans impactful roles in academia, mental health treatment, and community health, including leading the first Missing and Murdered Indigenous Relatives Day of Honor at Northern Arizona University. She has worked with the Native American Research Centers for Health and the National Cancer Institute, championing diversity and inclusion in health research. Dr. Keene holds a doctor of philosophy degree in counseling psychology from the University of Denver; a master of art degree in community counseling from Loyola University; and a bachelor of art degree in psychology from Fort Lewis College. 
 
Resources
Insights For Indigenous Evaluation Book (Open access and free online!) https://pressbooks.pub/indigenousinsightscollective/ 
For more visit: https://www.gladysrowe.com/podcast (Scroll to the bottom to subscribe to the newsletter!)
If you are loving this podcast please leave a five star review on your favourite streaming service.
If you would like to offer support please visit: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/InsightsPod

S05E01:Insights for Indigenous Evaluation: The Story Behind the Book with Taylor Wilson & Nadine Flagel

Overview 
Season 5 opens with a reflective and “meta” conversation about the creation of Insights for Indigenous Evaluation—an open-access book drawn from the first season of the podcast. Gladys is joined by Taylor Wilson and Nadine Flagel, who share the journey of transforming spoken conversations into a living, multimedia text.
Together, they explore what it means to carry stories with care: honoring voice, relational accountability, Indigenous knowledge stewardship, and editorial responsibility. The episode offers a behind-the-scenes look at decisions around accessibility, open access publishing, copyright, and co-creation. Rather than producing a traditional textbook, the team chose to create a reflective, multi-vocal resource that invites readers into relationship with Indigenous evaluation practices.
This conversation highlights themes of Indigenous resurgence, relational editing, stylistic integrity, and knowledge sovereignty while reminding listeners that how we publish and share knowledge must align with the values we hold in evaluation practice. The episode closes with an invitation to engage with the book, support the podcast, and continue learning in community.
Taylor Wilson is an Ojibwe, Cree, and Filipina scholar and member of Fisher River Cree Nation on Treaty 5 territory, with connections to Peguis First Nation (Treaty 1), Fairford First Nation (Treaty 2), and the Ilocano region of the Philippines. She grew up between Fisher River and Winnipeg (Treaty 1 and homeland of the Métis Nation) and now lives and works primarily the traditional territory of the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam) Nation. Taylor is currently pursuing her PhD in Integrated Studies in Land and Food Systems at the University of British Columbia.
 
Taylor’s work is rooted in Indigenous food sovereignty, health, and evaluation, with a commitment to Indigenous methodologies, relational accountability, and data sovereignty. She has contributed to community-based research and evaluation, curriculum development, and taught in Australia, Hawai’i, and across central and western Canada. She began her journey with Dr. Gladys Rowe and the Indigenous Insights team in 2024 offering support to the many projects, partners, and communities they work with. She describes herself as a learner, listener, and helper to strengthen relationships, stories, and practices that sustain Indigenous life for generations to come.
Nadine Flagel is a Vancouver, BC-based settler with English, Irish, and German roots. She has a BA in English from Simon Fraser University in Burnaby, British Columbia, an MA in Cultural Studies from the University of Sussex, in Brighton, UK, and a PhD in twentieth-century English Literature from Dalhousie University in Halifax, NS. Her dissertation was about how contemporary fiction borrows from 18th and 19th century black autobiography, especially slave narratives. Nadine taught literature and composition on contract at various postsecondary institutions in Canada for nearly twenty years. She has also worked as a grant and report writer at not-for-profits. Now she works as a researcher, writer and editor on books and articles connected to social justice. She’s also a textile artist with a specialty in reusing fabrics in rugs and quilts.
Resources
Insights For Indigenous Evaluation Book (Open access and free online!) https://pressbooks.pub/indigenousinsightscollective/ 
Elements of Indigenous Style, Gregory YoungingBeneath the Red Umbrella, Genevieve Fuji Johnson, Carrie Porth & contributors
A Room of One’s Own, Virginia Woolf
For more visit: https://www.gladysrowe.com/podcast (Scroll to the bottom to subscribe to the newsletter!)
If you are loving this podcast please leave a five star review on your favourite streaming service.
If you would like to offer support please visit: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/InsightsPod

S04E07: What are we carrying from this season? Elizabeth Carlson-Manathara and Gladys Rowe

Overview 
In this closing episode of the Season 4 Spotlight Series, Dr. Gladys Rowe and Dr. Elizabeth Carlson-Manathara reflect back on the teachings, tensions, and transformations that emerged across the season’s conversations. This episode creates space for collective sensemaking, where Liz and Gladys reflect on how these dialogues have shifted their thinking about evaluation, leadership, and anti-colonial practice. 
Drawing on lessons from guests throughout the season, they explore the importance of doing the “work before the work,” grounding evaluation in relationship, story, and accountability. The conversation weaves together reflections on Indigenous and anti-colonial theories of change, the courage to “say the things,” evaluation as a practice of love, and the responsibility to evaluate toward the futures we want to live into. The episode closes with gratitude for the guests and listeners who journeyed through the season, and an invitation to carry these teachings forward into evaluation spaces, institutions, and everyday practice guided by love, humility, and relational accountability. 
Resources
Leanne Simpson As We Have Always Done: Indigenous Freedom through Radical Resistance https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34850530-as-we-have-always-done 
 
For more visit: https://www.gladysrowe.com/podcast (Scroll to the bottom to subscribe to the newsletter!)
If you are loving this podcast please leave a five star review on your favourite streaming service.
If you would like to offer support please visit: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/InsightsPod

S04E06: Stories, Trust, and Showing Up: Evaluation as Relationship with Corrie Whitmore

Corrie Whitmore, Associate Professor of Health Sciences at University of Alaska Anchorage, served as 2023 President of the American Evaluation Association and founding president (2012) of the Alaska Evaluation Network (AKEN). She is a lifelong Alaskan who returned to the state after completing an M.S. in Industrial and Organizational Psychology and Ph.D. in Developmental Psychology at Virginia Tech to help Alaska "grow our own" workforce and support the health of our community in the Division of Population Health Sciences at the University of Alaska Anchorage. Her current work centers around exploring the role of trust in a patient-provider relationship and evaluating programs designed to build and support community wellness, particularly in tribal contexts. Dr. Whitmore's teaching invites story into the health policy classroom, partners evaluation students with community programs where they can apply their learning to support operations, and introduces students to what public health looks like in Alaska.
Overview 
In this episode Dr. Gladys Rowe and Dr. Elizabeth Carlson-Manathara are joined by Dr. Corrie Whitmore, Associate Professor of Health Sciences at the University of Alaska Anchorage, former President of the American Evaluation Association, and founding President of the Alaska Evaluation Network. Corrie shares her journey as an “accidental evaluator,” tracing how her lifelong relationship to Alaska, her academic training in psychology, and her work within Alaska Native–led health systems shaped her understanding of evaluation as a deeply relational and community-rooted practice.
The conversation explores the role of trust, story, and cultural humility in evaluation, particularly within Indigenous and Tribal contexts. Corrie reflects on learning to move beyond Western notions of professionalism and expertise, emphasizing the importance of showing up as a full human being in relationship with community. She shares lessons from her work in Alaska Native health organizations, her experiences building local evaluation capacity, and her leadership within AEA—including her decision to center story as the 2023 conference theme. Throughout the episode, Corrie speaks candidly about mistakes, learning, and growth, offering grounded insights into land acknowledgements, Indigenous sovereignty, evaluation ethics, and the responsibility evaluators hold to listen, witness, and translate community knowledge without extracting it. The episode closes with a powerful reminder that evaluation, at its best, is not about distance or neutrality but about relationship, accountability, and honoring the stories communities entrust us to carry forward.
Resources 
Article: Teaching Evaluation Through Community-Engaged Learning Courses
Article: Making Land Acknowledgements in the University Setting Meaningful and Appropriate
Article: Facilitating Culturally Safe Conversations Around Substance Use Disorder and Contraception to Provide Inclusive Care for Neurodiverse and Neurotypical Populations
 
For more visit: https://www.gladysrowe.com/podcast (Scroll to the bottom to subscribe to the newsletter!)
If you are loving this podcast please leave a five star review on your favourite streaming service.
If you would like to offer support please visit: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/InsightsPod

S04E05: Liberatory Evaluation, Trust-Based Giving, and Reimagining Impact with Hafsa Mustafa

Bio
Hafsa Mustafa – Decolonial MEL Strategist - is a researcher, writer, and data expert with more than 20 years of experience in the field of learning and evaluation. Hafsa's perspective is rooted in both professional expertise and personal history.
Her career spans grassroots movements, philanthropy, impact investing, and academia, where she has helped organizations turn complex information into actionable insights and impact strategies that are grounded, equity-driven, and built to endure.
Informed by mentorship across global movements and a family legacy rooted in justice, she is committed to making research and evaluation non-extractive, relational, and a driver of transformative change.
 
Overview
In this thought-provoking episode, hosts Dr. Gladys Rowe and Dr. Elizabeth Carlson-Manathara are joined by Hafsa Mustafa, a decolonial monitoring, evaluation, and learning strategist whose 20+ years of work span grassroots movements, philanthropy, impact investing, and academia.
Hafsa shares her evaluation origin story, weaving together her family’s history of displacement under British colonialism, her experience growing up in Karachi’s dual education systems, and her awakening to how colonial frameworks shape knowledge, language, and data. In this episode, the conversation moves through the many ways Hafsa is reimagining evaluation as a liberatory and justice-oriented practice. She shares how her partnerships with global social movements have reshaped the meaning of impact - centering collaboration, relationship, and shared power rather than compliance or control. Hafsa reflects on the principles of trust-based giving, which challenge traditional philanthropy by emphasizing long-term, relationship-centered approaches grounded in mutual accountability. Drawing inspiration from solidarity economies in Mexico, landless worker movements in Brazil, and women’s cooperatives in Nepal, she highlights how collective power and intergenerational learning create sustainable change. Finally, Hafsa introduces her “liberatory evaluation” tools - the diagnostic and champion’s map - that help individuals and organizations locate themselves within systems of power and envision tangible pathways toward equity and transformation.
 
Resources 
Just Insights – https://justinsights.org
 
Email: indigenousevaluationpodcast@gmail.com 
For more visit: https://www.gladysrowe.com/podcast (Scroll to the bottom to subscribe to the newsletter!)
If you are loving this podcast please leave a five star review on your favourite streaming service.
If you would like to offer support please visit: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/InsightsPod

S04E04: Joyful Militancy, Black Liberatory Evaluation & Mind-Your-Business Solidarity with Dr. Monique Liston

Bio
What happens when Black identity is loved, protected, and defended as we collectively learn about process and change in communities, organizations and programs? This is the question that dr. monique liston unapologetically built a community-engaged intellectual and regenerative life practice around. She is the founder, chief strategist, and joyful militant at UBUNTU Research and Evaluation, an undisciplined learning organization in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. As the daughter of Ursula, granddaughter of Gracie J. and Bernice, pet-mom of Simone, a mini Goldendoodle, and Franklin, a Russian Box Tortoise, she asks that you send her recommendations of bookstores, restaurants, and beaches to help her find joy while surviving the end of a white supremacist heteropatriarchal queerphobic world.
Overview
In this powerful episode, Gladys and Liz are joined by Dr. Monique Liston — Founder, Chief Strategist, and joyful militant at Ubuntu Research & Evaluation in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Monique centers Black liberation, joy, and collective thriving in her evaluation practice and invites us to imagine — and measure — toward the worlds our communities deserve. 
Monique invites us into a bold reimagining of evaluation as a liberatory practice rooted in Black joy, dignity, and possibility. She describes her approach to Black liberatory evaluation as one that rejects deficit-based narratives and instead insists on measuring progress toward the thriving futures Black communities deserve. Together, the conversation explores how solidarity requires what Monique calls “minding your business deeply”—grounding ourselves in our own histories, responsibilities, and communities so that cross-movement alignment is built with intention rather than assumption. They also dive into Ubuntu’s Afrofuturist Evaluation and Beloved Community frameworks, which evaluate present-day efforts based on their ability to move us toward worlds free from oppression. Throughout, Monique speaks candidly about the tensions evaluators face when working inside systems that don’t always reflect our values, and emphasizes the role of joy, curiosity, and writing as essential acts of resistance, mentorship, and future-building.
Resources
Check out Fractals here.
AEA GEDI Internship
 
Email: indigenousevaluationpodcast@gmail.com 
For more visit: https://www.gladysrowe.com/podcast (Scroll to the bottom to subscribe to the newsletter!)
If you are loving this podcast please leave a five star review on your favourite streaming service.
If you would like to offer support please visit: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/InsightsPod

S04E03: Saying the Things – Systems Change, Trauma, and Transformation with Louise Adongo

Bio
Louise Adongo was born and mostly raised in Kenya but has also lived in various parts of Southern Africa. A bold and grounded leader with close to 20 years' experience in systems change, policy and evaluation, Louise runs the inclusive engagement consultancy, Caprivian Strip Inc (CSI) and is a co-steward in systemic mediation with the Transition Bridges Project collective *https://www.transitionbridges.net 
Drawing lessons and wisdom from her heritage, faith, creativity as well as assorted personal & professional experiences, she brings care and intention to uncovering the roots of tangled problems; enabling shifts to greater resilience, sustainability and impact. 
She believes that co-creating more nimble, transparent and creative institutional spaces is key to the reinvention that we have learned through our most recent pandemic that we all need. She also understands that connection in communities can be made possible quite unexpectedly one conversation at a time. 
 
Overview 
In this episode, hosts Dr. Gladys Rowe and Dr. Elizabeth Carlson-Manathara sit down with Louise Adongo, a systems change leader, evaluator, and founder of Caprivian Strip, an inclusive and empathy-based consulting firm that uses facilitation, research, and evaluation to support clients in their change work. Louise shares her origin story from Kenya to Nova Scotia, exploring how love, courage, and truth-telling shape her approach to systems transformation and evaluation.
Together, they explore what it means to say the things—to have the courage to name what is often left unspoken within systems of power, oppression, and policy. Louise reflects on how unaddressed grief and trauma can keep systems stuck, emphasizing that witnessing and naming these truths is essential for transformation. The conversation moves into a reflection on dignity in transition, inviting a reimagining of leadership and organizational change as opportunities for healing rather than moments defined by burnout or shame. They close by turning toward creativity and joy, considering how art, play, and embodiment can restore a sense of wholeness, imagination, and connection in decolonial and systems change work.
 
Email: indigenousevaluationpodcast@gmail.com 
For more visit: https://www.gladysrowe.com/podcast (Scroll to the bottom to subscribe to the newsletter!)
If you are loving this podcast please leave a five star review on your favourite streaming service.
If you would like to offer support please visit: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/InsightsPod

S04E02: Decolonizing Policy and Leading with Love with Toni Tilston-Jones

Toni (she/her) is a descendant of white settlers, mostly from Britain, Ireland, Wales who was born and raised here, in Treaty One territory, in the heart of the Metis nation in Winnipeg MB, Canada. She is a daughter, sister, wife, parent, friend, community member, and a member of the 2SLGBTQQIA* community. Toni has a deep love for animals and the beauty of Mother Earth. She is committed to dismantling the systems, structures, and processes of colonization, oppression and injustice that cause harm, imbalance, and injustice. This must be work focused on the personal, organizational and systems levels. She believes we all have the capacity to heal ourselves, Mother Earth and continue to flourish as communities. She also believes on this journey, we need others -always - to walk with. All that we do is relational. Toni has a Master of Social Work from the University of Manitoba with a specialization in Leadership/Social Policy/Administration in not-for profits and over 25 years of experience working with people, communities, systems, and organizations. She has spent over 20 years providing direct clinical services, works in the not-for-profit sector at the executive level and is the owner and primary operator of Resurgence Consulting & Counselling
Overview
In this second episode of this spotlight series, hosts Dr. Gladys Rowe and Dr. Elizabeth Carlson-Manathara sat down with Toni Tilston-Jones—a leader, community advocate, and executive director—whose career has been rooted in dismantling systems of oppression and reimagining organizations through anti-colonial and decolonial practices.
Toni shares her origin story, growing up in white settler spaces, navigating queerness in a society that denied belonging, and early experiences working with Indigenous youth in the justice and child welfare systems. These moments sharpened her understanding of oppression and fueled her lifelong commitment to system change, healing, and justice.
In this episode, the conversation explores how decolonizing organizations must begin from the inside out—addressing racism and oppression before inviting Elders or community knowledge keepers into the work. Toni shares how she has used policy as a lever for change through a staff-led committee and analysis tool, leading to transformative shifts such as a compassionate leave policy and space for ceremony. Together, Gladys, Liz, and Toni reflect on evaluation as a practice of transformation, highlighting the development of a youth-led wellness card deck and staff reflection tools that center belonging, connection, and relationship as measures of well-being. At the heart of it all is Toni’s leadership philosophy—grounded in love, humility, and vulnerability—shaping a path away from hierarchy and toward shared leadership and relational accountability.
 
Email: indigenousevaluationpodcast@gmail.com 
For more visit: https://www.gladysrowe.com/podcast (Scroll to the bottom to subscribe to the newsletter!)
If you are loving this podcast please leave a five star review on your favourite streaming service.
If you would like to offer support please visit: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/InsightsPod 

S04E01: Living in Indigenous Sovereignty with Dr. Elizabeth Carlson-Manathara

Dr. Elizabeth Carlson-Manathara is an Associate Professor in the School of Social Work at Laurentian University. She is a non-Indigenous scholar whose work focuses on the roles of non-Indigenous peoples in decolonization, reconciliation, Treaty, and LANDBACK; and on anti-colonial methodologies and decolonial change through public education and film. She is the author of the book Living in Indigenous Sovereignty and a filmmaker with the Stories of Decolonization Film Project. 
 
Overview
In this first episode of Season 4, host Gladys Rowe is joined by co-host Dr. Elizabeth Carlson-Manathara for the launch of a special spotlight series on anti-colonial and decolonial evaluation. Together, they explore the practices, tensions, and responsibilities of reimagining evaluation as a site of transformation rather than extraction.
Elizabeth shares her origin story—from her upbringing in white communities in the U.S., to her early experiences working in an Indigenous school in Minneapolis, to her deeper learning through gatherings at Turtle Lodge in Manitoba. She reflects on her journey into anti-colonial praxis, the responsibilities of non-Indigenous peoples in decolonization, and the concept of living in Indigenous sovereignty.
This conversation sets the stage for the season ahead—one that will feature Indigenous and non-Indigenous evaluators, scholars, practitioners, and knowledge keepers walking the path of decolonial and anti-colonial evaluation in different ways.
Resources 
Book: Living in Indigenous Sovereignty
Film Series: Stories of Decolonization Film Project
Turtle Lodge, Sakgeeng Manitoba: Turtle Lodge 
 
Email: indigenousevaluationpodcast@gmail.com 
To be added to the mailing list when this is announced please send an email with the subject line: SUBSCRIBE to: indigenousevaluationpodcast@gmail.com 
For more visit: https://gladysrowe.com/category/indigenousinsights/ 
If you are loving this podcast please leave a five star review on your favourite streaming service.
If you would like to offer support please visit: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/InsightsPod