Indigenous Insights: An Evaluation Podcast

Cheyenne Seneca is a descendent of the Seneca Nation of Indians. She comes from a lineage of social workers, teachers, and lawyers who have dedicated their life’s work to supporting communities in Indian Country. 
She grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area and her calling to serve Native people through science and storytelling was nurtured by the urban Indian community. 
She has worked with urban Indian organizations, partnered with Tribal research councils, and carried out Indigenous evaluation for almost ten years. 
Today, she works as an Indigenous evaluator at the Urban Indian Health Institute, a Tribal Epidemiology Center that serves urban American Indians and Alaska Natives nationally. She is committed to its mission to decolonize data for Indigenous people, by Indigenous people and has made contributions through her expertise in providing training and technical assistance in public health research and evaluation. 
She is passionate about reclaiming evaluation as an Indigenous value and practice, and improving the evaluation capacity of urban Indian organizations and young people.
She especially loves mentoring interns participating in the Urban Indian Health Institute’s Public Health Training Program and supporting their journeys to becoming leaders for their communities.
Overview
In this episode, Gladys is joined by Cheyenne Seneca, an Indigenous evaluator at the Urban Indian Health Institute, for a beautiful conversation about identity, belonging, public health, and evaluation as a practice of service to community. Cheyenne shares her journey of coming into confidence in her Indigenous identity, shaped by family stories, connection to Seneca heritage, urban Indigenous community, and formative experiences at the National Congress of American Indians, Intertribal Friendship House, Native American Health Center, and tribal research spaces. Through these relationships, she came to understand evaluation not as an extractive or judgment-based practice, but as a way of giving back, strengthening community, and carrying responsibility with care.
Cheyenne reflects on her work supporting the evaluation of the Urban Indian Health Institute’s Public Health Training Program, which supports Indigenous youth, interns, and fellows in exploring public health, research, evaluation, and service. They explore the opportunity of storytelling, art, oral presentations, and culturally grounded evaluation methods as powerful ways for young people to reflect on their learning and reclaim their place in science, public health, and community leadership. This episode is an invitation to invest in Indigenous youth, build spaces of belonging, and imagine Indigenous evaluation as a practice rooted in love, cultural connectedness, mentorship, and collective futures.
 
Resources 
Responsibility to All Relations: Indigenous Evaluation of an AIAN Public Health Workforce Development Program, Cheyenne Seneca, Benita McCarn, and Lenice Baker in the Canadian Journal of Program Evaluation. 
Insights For Indigenous Evaluation Book (Open access and free online!) https://pressbooks.pub/indigenousinsightscollective/ 
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Martell Hesketh, a member of Michel First Nation from Treaty 6 territory in Canada, is a program evaluator dedicated to advancing Indigenous ways of knowing through data and storytelling. After studying Human Biology at Stanford University and earning her MPH from the University of Washington, Martell worked with Urban Indian organizations at a tribal epidemiology center. Her work focuses on reclaiming narratives through evaluation grounded in Indigenous values and community priorities. She currently works at NDN Collective as the Impact & Learning Manager and lives on Coast Salish lands in Seattle, Washington.
 
Gillian Joseph is Ihaŋktoŋwaŋ and Mdewakaŋtoŋ Dakota and grew up as a guest on Waxhaw and Catawba lands. They have worked as a researcher, evaluator, and writer across diverse contexts, guided by their passion for Indigenous sovereignty and storytelling. Some of their previous experience includes serving as Research Manager at NDN Collective, developing and evaluating a curriculum about Indigenous Knowledge, producing social sciences textbooks, and utilizing decolonial methodologies to deepen understandings of health and well-being. They have a Bachelor’s degree in Psychology from George Washington University and a Master’s in Social and Cultural Psychology which was completed at ISCTE - University Institute of Lisbon, the University of Oslo, and the University of Limerick.
Overview
In this episode, Gladys is joined by Martell Hesketh and Gillian Joseph in a conversation about Indigenous evaluation, storytelling, and the ongoing work of redefining impact. Martell and Gillian share their journeys into evaluation through public health, psychology, community-based research, and Indigenous-led organizations, reflecting on how they came to understand evaluation as a practice of responsibility, relationship, and narrative reclamation.
 
Together, they explore their process of developing an impact framework within a movement organization, where work is constantly shifting in response to community needs. Rather than treating impact as a fixed or linear concept, Martell and Gillian describe it as contextual, relational, and intergenerational, something shaped by ancestors, present-day realities, and collective dreams for the future. They highlight the importance of strong and flexible evaluation questions, positive feedback loops, Indigenous definitions of sustainability, and the need to resist narrow metrics that flatten community stories.
 
A central thread of the episode is collective dreaming: the practice of coming together to imagine futures rooted in Indigenous worldviews, shared meaning, and community power. This episode invites listeners to consider how evaluation can hold space for dreams, uncertainty, accountability, and the many ways Indigenous communities already know how to measure what matters.
 
Resources 
Article: Reclaiming Data for Indigenous Dreaming & Self-Determination.
Insights For Indigenous Evaluation Book (Open access and free online!) https://pressbooks.pub/indigenousinsightscollective/ 
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Dr. Lindsay Marie Brant  is the Director, Indigenous Initiatives at St. Lawrence College and is from Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory. In addition to her administrative role, Lindsay is an Adjunct Assistant Professor in the Master of Health Professions Education program at Queen’s, and Senior Advisor, Teaching, Innovation and Learning, advising on the curriculum design and redevelopment for this program.
Lindsay has received several awards in recognition of her contributions to education, including the Educational Leadership Award from the Educational Developers Caucus and an Ideas Worth Teaching Award from the Aspen Institute in 2021, the latter acknowledging her innovative work in the Commerce program at Smith School of Business at Queen’s University. Most recently, she was honoured with the Canadian Association for Medical Education’s Certificate of Merit Award (2024) for her impactful work in health education curriculum development. Lindsay was also the 2025 recipient of the Indigenous Women’s Movement Award from the Ontario Native Women’s Association, honouring her commitment to leading community-driven and values- based work both in community, and across educational institutions. Lindsay has also been honoured with several team awards from Queen’s University, including Principal’s Teaching & Learning Award for Indigenous Education (2 x recipient in 2023 and in 2026).
 
Dr. Brant was recently named an inaugural invited scholar and Pedagogy of Peace Nexus leader in the newly established Queen’s Institute for Educational Scholarship and Research (QIESR) at Queen’s University, which will allow for cross-institutional research, and global reach for advancing Indigenous knowledges/research/scholarship/educational praxis.
 
In addition to her academic and leadership roles, Lindsay is also an accomplished storyteller, writer, and poet, whose work is rooted in Indigenous knowledges, values, creativity, and community/ancestral connection and healing.
 
Overview
In this episode, Gladys is joined by Dr. Lindsay Brant. Rooted in her community of Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory and guided by the teachings embedded in her name, Lindsay shares a deeply personal journey of leadership, storytelling, and coming into her responsibilities as a knowledge carrier. Their conversation focuses on how her love of language, land, and water shaped her understanding of education as a relational practice and ultimately led to the development of her Pedagogy of Peace framework.
 
Lindsay reflects on creating the framework during the COVID-19 pandemic, drawing upon the teachings of the Great Law of Peace, Haudenosaunee values, and Anishinaabe understandings of relationality and balance. The episode explores how peace, strength, a good mind, and self-in-relation can guide educational practice, leadership, and evaluation. Lindsay offers reflections on the responsibilities that come with sharing Indigenous knowledge within institutional spaces, the importance of protecting community-rooted teachings, and the role of poetry and creative practice in imagining decolonial futures. The episode closes with Lindsay sharing her poem Fearless Futures, a powerful reflection on hope, world-building, and the possibilities that emerge when we choose peace, connection, and collective care.
 
Resources 
Queen’s University Centre for Teaching and Learning
Pedagogy of Peace Animation. Available through the Queen’s Centre for Teaching and Learning YouTube channel.
Insights For Indigenous Evaluation Book (Open access and free online!) https://pressbooks.pub/indigenousinsightscollective/ 
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Bio
Elliott Young is a Nehiyaw (Cree) scholar from Ermineskin Cree Nation with family ties to Louis Bull Tribe, Samson Cree Nation, and Tsuut’ina Nation. He lives in Edmonton with his wife and two children and is a PhD Candidate in the School of Public Health at the University of Alberta. His doctoral research, Indigenous Sovereignty through Health Economics Evaluation, examines how Nehiyaw worldviews can reshape how health systems define value and make decisions. Elliott has over a decade of experience in government, education, and the non-profit sector advancing Indigenous engagement, education, and evaluation. He is Vice Chair of the Maskwacis Education School Commission, an Associate Editor of the Roots and Relations section of the Canadian Journal of Program Evaluation, and sits on the Canadian Evaluation Society’s Working Group on Advancing Reconciliation and Indigenous Sovereignty in Evaluation. He is a SSHRC Doctoral Fellow and a 2020 Edify Magazine Top 40 Under 40 recipient. 
 
Overview
In this episode, Gladys sits down with Elliott Young, Nêhiyaw scholar, evaluator, and PhD candidate, to explore his journey into evaluation and the questions that continue to shape his work. Elliott reflects on his early experiences in Indigenous engagement and relationship-building that led him to ask deeper questions about impact, organizational change, and how institutions measure success. What began as a curiosity about evaluation has evolved into doctoral research examining the intersection of Indigenous sovereignty and health economics evaluation. 
 
Elliott asks important questions and offers observations about how health systems make decisions about funding, value, and resource allocation, and the ways Indigenous peoples are often excluded from those processes. Elliott shares how his research is investigating what it would mean to create space for Indigenous worldviews, leadership, and decision-making within health economics evaluation. The conversation expands into broader reflections on Indigenous evaluation, the challenges of defining the field, and the importance of grounding evaluation in Indigenous governance, community priorities, and sovereignty rather than simply adapting existing frameworks. 
 
Resources 
Maskwacîs Education Schools Commission (MESC)
Roots & Relations in the Canadian Journal of Program Evaluation 
 
Insights For Indigenous Evaluation Book (Open access and free online!) https://pressbooks.pub/indigenousinsightscollective/ 
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Overview
In this episode, Gladys sits down with Dr. Shawn Wilson, author of Research Is Ceremony, to reflect on the ongoing evolution of Indigenous research, evaluation, and relational ways of knowing. Moving between humor, storytelling, and deep reflection, Shawn revisits the origins of Research Is Ceremony and shares how writing to his children and future generations transformed not only the style of his work, but the accountability and intention behind it.
 
Together, they explore Indigenous research and evaluation as relational, living, and deeply contextual practices grounded in respect, reciprocity, and care for community. Shawn reflects on the importance of recognizing research and evaluation as interconnected processes rooted in pattern recognition, relationship-building, and collective wellbeing. The conversation moves through stories of Indigenous evaluation in community settings, mentorship and “academic kinship,” and the role of intergenerational relationships in sustaining Indigenous scholarship.
 
Throughout the episode, he reminds listeners that Indigenous research is not simply defined by the identity of the researcher, but by an intentional commitment to honoring relationships as the fundamental nature of the universe.
 
Dr Shawn Wilson (he/him) BSc (U Manitoba), MA (U Alaska), PhD (Monash) is from the Opaskwayak Cree Nation in northern Canada and lives on Syilx territory in Kelowna, British Columbia.  He is a Professor of Indigenous Studies and coordinates the Indigenous Knowledges Theme at the University of British Columbia.
Shawn has worked with Indigenous people worldwide and co-leads a research project aiming to define rules and guidelines for respecting and safeguarding sacred teachings, such as Ceremonial and Star Knowledge. He has spent time living, teaching and researching across Canada, the US, Australia, and Norway, along with supervising research projects in Bangladesh, Indonesia and Papua New Guinea.
Shawn is the author of Research is Ceremony, which has sold out multiple printings. He is on the Board of Directors with the Tapestry Institute and has joined the newly established advisory group at the Smithsonian National Museum of the American Indian. Shawn has presented at Goals House (Davos) as part of the World Economic Forum and the Mir Centre for Peace. He cites his 3 kids as his greatest achievement, pride and joy.
 
Resources 
Shawn Wilson (2008) – Research Is Ceremony: Indigenous Research Methods
SAGE Program – Supporting Aboriginal Graduate Enhancement. Indigenous graduate student peer and mentorship support initiative across UBC, Simon Fraser University, and UBC Okanagan
Insights For Indigenous Evaluation Book (Open access and free online!) https://pressbooks.pub/indigenousinsightscollective/ 
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Bio
Dr. Kathy Absolon loves sharing stories about how we come to know. She is Anishinaabekwe from Flying Post First Nation Treaty 9. She has been involved in restoring Indigenous knowledge in education for 40 years now and for the last 19 years has been a professor in the Indigenous Field of Study MSW program in the Faculty of Social Work at Wilfrid Laurier University. Her search for How we Come to Know is shared in her books Kaandossiwin How We Come To Know (Fernwood Publishing 2022, 2nd Ed. & 2011). Kathy’s work as a community helper has been informed by her close relationship to the land and her drive to restore Anishinaabe ways of knowing, being and doing. In this podcast she shares her most recent Indigenous and decolonial re-search project of Decolonizing Journeys. 
 
Overview 
In this deeply reflective episode, Gladys is joined by Dr. Kathy Absolon, Anishinaabe scholar, educator, and long-time community helper, to explore her lifelong journey of restoring Indigenous ways of knowing, being, and doing. Kathy shares her origin story rooted in the land where she learned in the bush, guided by ancestors, and grounded in relational ethics long before formal academic training. She reflects on the tensions of entering Western academia, the erasure of Indigenous knowledge systems, and the decision to resist and center Indigenous methodologies in her doctoral work.
Kathy shares stories from the Decolonizing Journeys research project, which explores how individuals engage in the ongoing process of unpacking colonial beliefs, values, and practices. Engaging in methodology grounded in circle work, digital storytelling, and relational accountability, the project resists conventional analysis and honours each participant’s journey as unique and evolving. Make sure to watch out for the upcoming book and documentary based on this work.
Throughout the episode, Kathy emphasizes that decolonizing is not about returning to a pre-contact past, but about making conscious choices both individually and collectively to realign with Indigenous knowledge systems, restore relationships, and act with intention. This conversation is an invitation to reflect on our own journeys, to stay with discomfort, and to approach research, evaluation, and life itself as an ongoing, relational process of coming to know. 
 
Resources 
Kandosowin: How We Come to Know
Digital Storytelling & Re•Vision Centre for Art and Social Justice (York University)
Insights For Indigenous Evaluation Book (Open access and free online!) https://pressbooks.pub/indigenousinsightscollective/ 
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Overview 
In this episode, Gladys is joined by Rachel Chaffee, Abby Perez, and Sakira Hermawan to reflect on their collaborative evaluation of the Grounded by Our Roots exhibit in the Pacific Northwest Coast Hall at the American Museum of Natural History.The conversation traces how their partnership began and explores the possibilities that emerge when museums invite Indigenous approaches to evaluation and storytelling into cultural halls.
Together, they share how the team designed an evaluation process that moved beyond traditional survey-based methods to center embodied experience, creativity, and relationship. Through youth partnerships, focus groups, zine-making, storytelling, and time spent in the hall with Indigenous curatorial fellow James McGuire (Haida Nation), visitors were invited to reflect on their emotional, sensory, and relational experiences of the exhibit.
Grounded in the Four Rs framework: reflexivity, respect, reciprocity, and relationality, the team reflects on how this approach transformed their understanding of evaluation, museum responsibility, and the role of visitors in meaning-making. The conversation also highlights the importance of vulnerability, time, and trust in collaborative evaluation processes, and the ways creative and relational methods can open new pathways for learning within institutions. Ultimately, this episode invites listeners to imagine how evaluation can become a space for relationship-building, embodied reflection, and new storytelling within cultural institutions. 
 
Bios
Rachel Chaffee is an Assistant Director of Youth Research and Evaluation at the American Museum of Natural History. She completed a Ph.D. in Education with a focus on learning in out-of-school-time settings at the University of Rochester’s Warner School of Education.
Her areas of research include participatory methodologies with youth and the role of belonging and flourishing in youth academic and career pathways. 
 
Abby Perez is the Senior Manager of Youth and Workforce Development at the American Museum of Natural History. She designs museum programs centering community, science and communication. She is passionate about exploring museums as third spaces, community-driven research, and expanding pathways for youth to experience and exchange culture within New York City and beyond.  
Sakira Hermawan is a student in her last year at Barnard College, studying Anthropology and minoring in Ethnicity and Race. She is from Indonesia but is currently based in New York City. Her current areas of interest include alternative pedagogies and knowledge production, grassroots organizing, and space-making.
 
Resources
Grounded by Our Roots Exhibit. Pacific Northwest Coast Hall, American Museum of Natural History
American Museum of Natural History Museum Education Experience Program (MEEP)
Evaluation as Relationship: Embedding the Four R’s of Storytelling into Museum Spaces, Journal of Museum Education. 
Insights For Indigenous Evaluation Book (Open access and free online!) https://pressbooks.pub/indigenousinsightscollective/ 
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In this episode, Gladys sits down with Dr. Chesleigh Keene, Diné (Navajo) scholar and Vice President of Research and Evaluation at a Native-owned organization, to explore her journey into Indigenous evaluation. What began in relationship with her students supporting them in grounding their research in community evolved into a career shaped by cultural values, storytelling, and relational accountability.
Dr. Keene reflects on teaching during the pandemic, navigating academia as an Indigenous scholar, and shifting from traditional academic models toward community-centered research and evaluation. Together, Gladys and Chesleigh explore what it means to let stories “touch us” as evaluators, to move beyond rigid templates, and to resist flattening the complexity of community experiences. They discuss the importance of slowing down, asking better questions, honoring seasonal rhythms, and tending to the emotional impact of the work on ourselves and our teams.
This episode is an invitation to practice evaluation as relationship, to be changed by the work, and to carry that responsibility with care.
Bio
Dr. Chesleigh Keene (Diné/Navajo) serves as vice president for KAI’s research and evaluation team, bringing over a decade of experience advancing health and wellness in American Indian and Alaska Native (AI/AN) communities and improving health and wellness outcomes through culture-centric research, teaching, and service. Guided by Indigenous values, Dr. Keene integrates cultural and ceremonial elements into her work, focusing on cancer prevention, mental health, and education initiatives for AI/AN populations. She has collaborated on multidisciplinary teams, promoted cultural sensitivity in research, and taught graduate courses with a focus on Indigenous perspectives. Dr. Keene’s career spans impactful roles in academia, mental health treatment, and community health, including leading the first Missing and Murdered Indigenous Relatives Day of Honor at Northern Arizona University. She has worked with the Native American Research Centers for Health and the National Cancer Institute, championing diversity and inclusion in health research. Dr. Keene holds a doctor of philosophy degree in counseling psychology from the University of Denver; a master of art degree in community counseling from Loyola University; and a bachelor of art degree in psychology from Fort Lewis College. 
 
Resources
Insights For Indigenous Evaluation Book (Open access and free online!) https://pressbooks.pub/indigenousinsightscollective/ 
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Overview 
Season 5 opens with a reflective and “meta” conversation about the creation of Insights for Indigenous Evaluation—an open-access book drawn from the first season of the podcast. Gladys is joined by Taylor Wilson and Nadine Flagel, who share the journey of transforming spoken conversations into a living, multimedia text.
Together, they explore what it means to carry stories with care: honoring voice, relational accountability, Indigenous knowledge stewardship, and editorial responsibility. The episode offers a behind-the-scenes look at decisions around accessibility, open access publishing, copyright, and co-creation. Rather than producing a traditional textbook, the team chose to create a reflective, multi-vocal resource that invites readers into relationship with Indigenous evaluation practices.
This conversation highlights themes of Indigenous resurgence, relational editing, stylistic integrity, and knowledge sovereignty while reminding listeners that how we publish and share knowledge must align with the values we hold in evaluation practice. The episode closes with an invitation to engage with the book, support the podcast, and continue learning in community.
Taylor Wilson is an Ojibwe, Cree, and Filipina scholar and member of Fisher River Cree Nation on Treaty 5 territory, with connections to Peguis First Nation (Treaty 1), Fairford First Nation (Treaty 2), and the Ilocano region of the Philippines. She grew up between Fisher River and Winnipeg (Treaty 1 and homeland of the Métis Nation) and now lives and works primarily the traditional territory of the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam) Nation. Taylor is currently pursuing her PhD in Integrated Studies in Land and Food Systems at the University of British Columbia.
 
Taylor’s work is rooted in Indigenous food sovereignty, health, and evaluation, with a commitment to Indigenous methodologies, relational accountability, and data sovereignty. She has contributed to community-based research and evaluation, curriculum development, and taught in Australia, Hawai’i, and across central and western Canada. She began her journey with Dr. Gladys Rowe and the Indigenous Insights team in 2024 offering support to the many projects, partners, and communities they work with. She describes herself as a learner, listener, and helper to strengthen relationships, stories, and practices that sustain Indigenous life for generations to come.
Nadine Flagel is a Vancouver, BC-based settler with English, Irish, and German roots. She has a BA in English from Simon Fraser University in Burnaby, British Columbia, an MA in Cultural Studies from the University of Sussex, in Brighton, UK, and a PhD in twentieth-century English Literature from Dalhousie University in Halifax, NS. Her dissertation was about how contemporary fiction borrows from 18th and 19th century black autobiography, especially slave narratives. Nadine taught literature and composition on contract at various postsecondary institutions in Canada for nearly twenty years. She has also worked as a grant and report writer at not-for-profits. Now she works as a researcher, writer and editor on books and articles connected to social justice. She’s also a textile artist with a specialty in reusing fabrics in rugs and quilts.
Resources
Insights For Indigenous Evaluation Book (Open access and free online!) https://pressbooks.pub/indigenousinsightscollective/ 
Elements of Indigenous Style, Gregory YoungingBeneath the Red Umbrella, Genevieve Fuji Johnson, Carrie Porth & contributors
A Room of One’s Own, Virginia Woolf
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Overview 
In this closing episode of the Season 4 Spotlight Series, Dr. Gladys Rowe and Dr. Elizabeth Carlson-Manathara reflect back on the teachings, tensions, and transformations that emerged across the season’s conversations. This episode creates space for collective sensemaking, where Liz and Gladys reflect on how these dialogues have shifted their thinking about evaluation, leadership, and anti-colonial practice. 
Drawing on lessons from guests throughout the season, they explore the importance of doing the “work before the work,” grounding evaluation in relationship, story, and accountability. The conversation weaves together reflections on Indigenous and anti-colonial theories of change, the courage to “say the things,” evaluation as a practice of love, and the responsibility to evaluate toward the futures we want to live into. The episode closes with gratitude for the guests and listeners who journeyed through the season, and an invitation to carry these teachings forward into evaluation spaces, institutions, and everyday practice guided by love, humility, and relational accountability. 
Resources
Leanne Simpson As We Have Always Done: Indigenous Freedom through Radical Resistance https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34850530-as-we-have-always-done 
 
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